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| KGHN |
 Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 3:07 pm Post subject: Supporting a 20 year old MSB custom program - new hardware |
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User
Joined: 29 Mar 2010
Posts: 7
Location: Montana USA
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I am happy to find and join this forum.
20+ years ago, I was asked to adopt an orphaned custom MicroShare Multi-User BASIC program. I did, made the requested changes, and set my client up with a Colorado tape backup and a Tripp-lite LC1200 line conditioner.
A week ago, the harddrive on that old DOS 6.22/Win 3.11 machine crashed. No readable partition table on the old Conner HD. (I think that's a pretty impressive working lifespan.)
Happily, I have recovered the MSB programs and data from the most recent Colorado tape.
Since finding W3.11 drivers is difficult, I would like to set up MSB under W98SE (the last Windows with a true DOS mode; my test indicates MSB won't run in a command window), so that my client can back up to CD-R.
Problem: W98 doesn't have SHARE, and MSB crashes whenever it tries to write to the disk.
As Plan B, I'm going to try to set up the system to boot to DOS 6.22 on a floppy to make MSB happy, but I'd rather have it all integrated.
If you have solved this problem, I'd love to hear about it.
Thanks, KGHN |
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| KGHN |
| Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 7:33 pm Post subject: MSB crash on file access under W98SE - Solved |
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User
Joined: 29 Mar 2010
Posts: 7
Location: Montana USA
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OK, please forgive me for overlooking the obvious.
I brought the MSB programs and data, that I recovered from the backup tape, to the W98SE machine - on a CDR. When I copied the files to their new home, I neglected to remove the Read-only attribute that putting them on the CDR gave them. MSB has no "file is write-protected" error, so it just crashed when it tried to write to a file.
This works for me...
1) I created a shortcut on the W98 desktop to Cmd line: C:\MSB\MSBNOSER.BAT
Working: C:\MSB.
2) In Advanced, I told it to run in MS-DOS mode.
3) C:\MSB\MSBNOSER.BAT contains:
echo on
CD \MSB
REM SHARE not supported by W98
password
MSDISK 64
MSB $$START /128 /P%1
password off
CD..
When the shortcut is activated, the machine restarts into DOS mode and runs the MSB program. When the program quits, the machine restarts in W98. In W98SE, CDRTFE can back up the MSB files to CDR.
Note: "password" in the batch file is due to using NeverLOCK (by Copyware Inc, Newmarket Ontario) to allow this legitimate owner to move the original installed MSB system to a new machine 14 years ago. |
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| senco |
| Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 02 Apr 2010
Posts: 3
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Hi,
We've been using MSB 6.1 d3 with Windows XP for years. The SHARE issue was addressed in newer versions.
As an aside, there's a program called TameDOS that we use along with it. It dramatically reduces the CPU load when MSB is running.
TameDOS 4.5 was the last stable release. 5 has some problems with MSB, and I think the TameDOS developer is unavailable. Although, you can still purchase licenses.
If you need specific help, you're more than welcome to contact me at:
online@sencosystems.com
(Although, if you have anything to contribute to the group, it would be better to do that here.)
Eric
SENCO Computer Systems, Inc. |
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| KGHN |
| Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 12:18 am Post subject: |
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User
Joined: 29 Mar 2010
Posts: 7
Location: Montana USA
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Thanks, Senco,
I appreciate your sharing your valuable knowledge about updating MSB. I bet it will help someone who searches and finds this thread.
I have no clue what version of MSB my client has, but the manual was (c) 1986 by MicroShare Corporation, Salt Lake City UT. It's boxed, in a little blue 3 ring hardcover binder matching IBM's brown BASIC manual. It was a whole different world back then.
Do you think code that old would run unaltered under XP? Personally, I doubt it. Is this program worth updating? No.
This MSB use is a legacy situation - one business, running an old custom program because it still does the job for them. Basic invoices and billing. This program throws out all the detail when it does the monthly reports. Harddisks were 10-30M when it was written, so storage space was precious and reclaimed.
I am trying to rock their boat as little as possible, while gently encouraging them to consider migrating to a newer, off-the-shelf product. I bet they will think about it seriously when the used 400MHz W98SE machine I just sent them finally quits. I'm happy to continue knowing them; nice people. |
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| senco |
| Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 02 Apr 2010
Posts: 3
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Hi,
The flavor of Windows isn't going to change the underlining interpretation of the code.
If the software runs under 98SE, it will run fine under XP. (With TameDOS, MicroShare will actually run much better.)
There are some minor issues with printers. For example, USB printers have to be mapped to a logical parallel port.
The largest limitation from a user’s perspective is the lack of long file names. But, there are creative ways around that problem.
We have a mature product that was initially coded over 20 years ago, still running in many offices. The original code was in Recap. That (along with clients' data) was migrated to MicroShare in the 80’s. It ran on 3.11, 98, 98SE, and XP, with no code modifications.
We’ve had problems convincing people to move to our Windows version. They’re productive with the DOS version, and we’ve kept it up to date, as a relevant business tool. For many of them, there is no incentive to migrate.
Eric
SENCO Computer Systems, Inc.
www.sencosystems.com |
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| KGHN |
| Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 11:30 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 29 Mar 2010
Posts: 7
Location: Montana USA
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Hi Senco,
I am astonished the MSB interpretation is so backward-compatible. That's good news for old war horses like me supporting legacy situations.
I am curious what the sticker price is for the new MicroShare, and for TameDOS.
Yes, I am familiar with supporting legacy-use printers. I have done a number of "solutions" posts about that kind of work in geekstogo(dot)com. I support and maintain several FoxPro 2.6 for DOS office programs, including DRAINS, BillUtil, CLBooks and PETnHERD. These printer problems are not minor, but they are still solvable.
Would TameDOS help FoxPro-DOS run under Vista and Win7? I have heard scary stories of data loss etc and have held my users to XP so far.
I am hoping to try my systems under Linux DOS emulation soon. That's supposed to be good, and Linux is very stable and robust these days. It's becoming more user-friendly for maintenance and "mainstream", and I love the open-source community.
The lack of long file names in MSB is not a big deal. I am used to coding for 8+3.
You said, "We have a mature product that was initially coded over 20 years ago, still running in many offices. The original code was in Recap. That (along with clients' data) was migrated to MicroShare in the 80’s. It ran on 3.11, 98, 98SE, and XP, with no code modifications."
I congratulate you. When people stick with a legacy system, it's generally because it works for them. I love to see systems that were written "right" in the first place. Too bad the MSB program I support is not in that category.
KGHN |
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| senco |
| Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 02 Apr 2010
Posts: 3
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Hi,
I'm not sure what the current licensing costs are for MicroShare. Most of our existing installs were licensed when MicroShare was owned by George Miller.
TameDOS is sold by the number of users. One user is $20, and goes down from there.
I've never used TameDOS in Vista or 7.
I've tried to get support for TameDOS, but I've never heard back from the developer. 4.5 is stable. 5 has some great features, but we've experienced some problems with it. There's a trial version... I would give it a shot.
If you need some help with the MSB program, I'd be happy to consult. Sometimes it's not cost effective, but other times, it's the best solution.
While our legacy product is up-to-date, it's very difficult to market to new clients.
Eric
SENCO Computer Systems, Inc.
www.sencosystems.com
online ...at... sencosystems.com |
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| KGHN |
| Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 12:40 am Post subject: |
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User
Joined: 29 Mar 2010
Posts: 7
Location: Montana USA
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Hi again Eric,
I've been browsing around on tamedos(dot)com. I notice in the FAQ they mention FoxPro. FoxPro 2.6 for DOS is my most frequent programming language. I've been having trouble with my favorite old editor, XyWrite III+, in Win2Kpro. I think I will download a trial version, Tame45e.zip per your advice. If it restores my ability to sort and print, lost in the upgrade from W98SE, it will be well worth $20. If it lets me copy to the Windows clipboard, heaven.
Per the purchase page (Apr5 2010) 1-4 licenses is $20 each, 10 is $150, 100 licenses is $800, 25-mile-radius entire-location license is $1000. The downloads page does not mention Win7. It approves Vista, XP, & various older Win O/Ses. There is a Technical Reference online.
I just checked bbsysco(dot)com/page/gpl. No kidding, BBSysco is now offering a GPLv2 open source license.
Wow. That really does give us more options.
Thanks for your encouragement.
KGHN
Concise Logic, Martinsdale MT |
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| mikecurry |
| Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Posts: 1
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| KGHN wrote: |
Hi again Eric,
I just checked bbsysco(dot)com/page/gpl. No kidding, BBSysco is now offering a GPLv2 open source license.
Wow. That really does give us more options.
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Its only 3 years or more late. I think this project is dead. |
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| KGHN |
| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 1:15 pm Post subject: Problem with TameDOS |
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User
Joined: 29 Mar 2010
Posts: 7
Location: Montana USA
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I tried to install TameDOS 4.5e on my WinXP pro machine with AVG. Resident Shield reports c:\Program Files\Tame\TameView.exe as infected with Trojan horse Agent.ZFR
Yikes! |
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| KGHN |
| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 10:15 am Post subject: |
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User
Joined: 29 Mar 2010
Posts: 7
Location: Montana USA
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Update: I submitted the tame45e.zip file to AVG and asked whether the Trojan horse Agent.ZFR report is a false positive. Here is an excerpt from their reply:
...we can confirm that it is a false alarm. We would like to inform you that the false positive will be removed in the next Definitions update.
This is good news, and I commend AVG for their prompt response. |
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